Daniel Sims

So I finally reached the end of No More Heroes 2 (though I might not beat it).  While it's probably the best accomplishment I've seen from Suda 51, I still can't shake this feeling I get from all his games.  It's like they're really entertaining, but not that fun in the traditional game sense.

It's been said in reviews too ever since Killer 7 came around.  The man has a style that can be found in few other places in gaming, and he inches closer to actually making a truly great game, but No More Heroes 2 isn't quite it.

No I don't mean the "style over substance" problem that a lot of Japanese RPGs suffer from where they have more cut scenes than actual gameplay and the cut scenes become the most entertaining part of the game.  A Suda game will have immensely creative and entertaining elements that are definitely part of the game itself, but are wrapped around an underdeveloped or unpolished core.  I'm trying to figure out whether or not that's detrimental to the quality of stuff like NM H2.

The game comes down on us in the same Technicolor dream coat that Killer 7 and the first No More Heroes did.  The whole menu interface is tastefully old school which I would like to see done more often. One of the reasons I played to the end was just to see what each new boss would look like.  The storyline is, if nothing else, genuinely funny.

The actual gameplay itself however just came off to me as a markedly inferior hack n' slash coming out in the shadow of the expertly crafted Bayonetta.  NM H2 (on a classic controller) has the right configuration for this type of game including the new God of War-style dodge system.  There's no actual combo system though - just button mashing, the levels are rather bland, and the enemies, while more aggressive than in the first NMH, are still mostly unchallenging fodder.  That's aside from the choppy framerate and unresponsive dodging controls.   The only time when this game's combat feels as visceral as it should is during its deliciously challenging boss fights.

While it doesn't have the best base to work with, NMH2 brings me back into it by playing with that system in some of the most awesome ways.  Travis' and Shinobu's personalities while playing as them feel great even though what I'm actually doing with them is repetitive.  My greatest moment with this game was probably the first time I got an all BAR on the slots and Travis freaking turned into a tiger and the game let me maul enemies.

NMH2's smartest concession was taking the first game's mundane side jobs and turning them into 8-bit minigames.  I'd love it if more games did that, and I would probably buy any of these ones as individual DSiWare games or something.  The problem is, after you buy literally the second item in Naomi's shop, there's no more reason to play those games.

All that along with some more subtleties and the Bizzare Jelly shmup and anime opening sequence that spells out all that is wrong with anime today, just feels like its too good for the so-so game it's all wrapped around.  NMH2 lets me do a lot of stuff that I think is really cool to be able to do in a game, but there's not much of a game built for that stuff.

A lot of the fanbase that probably bought NMH2 will probably already accept it as the entertaining product it is regardless of the quality of the game within it.  Final Fantasy's fanbase does that all the time.  I don't think it has to be that way though.

A while back Suda 51 held this "Snake vs Zombie" thing where he, Shinji Mikami, and Hideo Kojima sat in front of a big screen and talked for an hour.  Those guys (along with maybe Hideki Kamiya) represent a sort of Japanese pulp gaming circle - this industry's answer to Quentin Tarantino, Robert Rodriguez, and Takashi Miike. 

They are all able to create games with a certain feel that make them seem more creative and entertaining than a lot of products in gaming.  They all make games but at the same time like to pick at gaming for how absurd it is.  Out of those guys however, only Suda seems to suffer from this "cool game" problem.

Mikami, Kojima, and Kamiya have all proven that they can make games that are not only entertaining as shit, but also exceptionally fun in their mechanics.  In my opinion, Suda has the potential to one day create the most fun action game ever.

This is the main reason while I'm interested in that project Suda and Mikami are supposedly doing together with EA.  If they can get the right synergy, Suda's and Mikami's styles can meld, and maybe Mikami will teach Suda how to create an actual game.

BULLETS:

• We need to talk about this:
  
• *sigh* The primary reason I haven't gone Mac yet is because the vast majority of computer games don't run on Macs.  I know you got stuff like crossover which my friend uses to play all his steam games.  Honestly though, when I do get another laptop, the only games I'll want to run on it are Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead - which will now both have Mac versions by the end of the year, that I technically already own.
• Is the game X for the original Game Boy buyable anywhere anymore?  For those that don't know, it was the spiritual predecessor to the original Star Fox - a 3D game for the original Game Boy brick made buy the guys who now make the PixelJunk games.  A sequel called X-Scape is now on the way for DSiWare.
• Can someone tell me what exactly Rock Band 3 will do to justify the "3"?

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• The game oozes style.

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  jellishot
  

  I love all NMH's surroundings, but you're probably right about the core game being average at best.  I own both the original and Desperate Struggle, but I haven't had the time (or maybe the inclination) to get very far in either.  It's kind of how I felt with Kingdom Hearts (though I think KH has a more solid foundation).  I kept playing a game where the gameplay wasn't that exceptional, but the "journey" and the presentation were just so damn great.

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• mikami

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  cyberninja187
  

  Well, mikami and suda both worked on killer 7 together and it is by far suda's best game in my eyes, i love no more heroes, but killer 7 is a fucking masterpiece.

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• Suda

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Bankshot77
  

  He has the right ideas, but not a proper enough budget to realize them. If he was made a director for Platinum or Capcom then I think he could make something really good. He hasn't had that chance up until now though. Unless I'm looking at this the wrong way, because my actual knowledge on game development is quite limited.

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• Great Blog

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Looshifer
  

  First of all 66% of my Wii collection has "No More Heroes" in the title and I am a total sucker for their aesthetic, so I might not be the best person to debate this, but...

  You said you were playing with a classic controller. I think this game really benefits from the inclusion of the motion controls. Actually swinging the controller to lop off a dude's head, or swinging the remote wildly to push back a villains sword adds a layer that you just aren't getting with the classic controller. 

  Now, I don't disagree that the games Suda makes lack a finishing coat, but I really do think the combat, though simple, has enough to keep it enjoyable throughout, if you are using the wiimote and nunchuck.

  I too, had just come off of Bayonetta May Cry, and while I do like that game, and it's battle system, I actually prefer what NMH2 has going on, due mostly to the "crazy" in NMH being better than the "crazy" in Devil May Bullet Witch. Does that make sense? 

   

   

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• great topic

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  kid_atomic
  

  This game has been one of the few games to give me Wii envy but it's striclty based on the style, creativity, and overall fun i think they had in coming up with ideas for it. The game however does exude the stench of repetition and tedious waves of lame thugs. I still defnitely want to expereince it though to get a taste for the craziness that does live there.

  I had this similar feeling while playing through Brutal Legend , the cutscenes dialog, and vaious details won me over but the gameplay itself was boring to the point where I would avaoid battles due to the tedium they presented. No time right now to pen out a list but I would like to hear more games which failed in gameplay but had a style or idea that made them must purchases....I'm playing through Deadly Premonition right now which might be the grand daddy of fighting off bad gameplay for the delights that are present elsewhere in the game.

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• Great blog!

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  GomezGomita
  

  agree, but don´t underestimate Mikami, he directed God-hand, and that´s some real hardcore-I don´t give a fuck about market sales-crazy-shit!!!... 

  And yes, the first time I´ve played N.M.H 1 I felt that "no budget" thing, you got the counterpart on Killer 7 (wich I personally think it´s a masterpiece) we got a strange, risky game (for a powerhouse like Capcom) but a top notch "product", no lag issues, no framerate issues. Even though it´s an author game you can see Capcom pulling the strings! (technical issues)

  NOTE: I read a Suda interview a few years ago, and he said that the japanese version of N.M.H runs smoother than the american port!

  If I were to compare Suda51 with a movie director I would say his more like Takashi Miike, no big budgets (mostly) but full of fresh ideas!!!

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• Suda

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  sepewrath
  

  I like the fact that Suda does his own thing, that he doesn't just simply conform to the standard parameters of the day that encompasses a great game. There are more than enough, by the grain, yes man, developers out there who focus solely on hitting the marketing sweet spots out there, that gamers these days have been conditioned to accept as the parts that make a great game.

  Suda does things a little different, he doesn't simply just go against the flow for the sake of being different. Infact he really only colors outside of the lines a bit and uses his games to mock that pattern that is followed like gospel these days. He uses insane idea's like in a sequel, refusing to tell what happened in the first game, or a plot that only 10% of it is relevant. Ideas that would never get off the ground at a place like Activision. Ubisoft or EA.

  I don't think that Suda is incapable of putting together the parts that equate to a AAA title, infact anyone afforded the budget can do it, because its just etched in stone these days, a mere checklist. However, I think Suda has more fun mocking the Call of Duty's of the world and how stoic the game industry is becoming outside of the Indy scene. Its kind of like how Capcom with MM9, built in design flaws, went backwards instead of forwards, had the NES boxart and everything. They were both mocking and paying homage to the series' heritage and that is what Suda does for the entire game industry.

  Anyway All industries need their characters, it would be boring if everyone walked around with their ties securely fastened, making all the accepted right moves. The industry needs people like Suda 51 to keep things interesting.

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• 8bit heroes

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Cary Woodham
  

  I'm going to wait until No More Heroes 2 goes way down in price before I get it.  Because all I'm really interested in is playing the 8-bit games.  :)  --Cary

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• Absolutely right

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  frootlooped22
  

  Killer 7 was an interesting experience. But it was not a good game. The shooting and scanning thing was done better in Metroid Prime. And the little adventure puzzle stuff has been done better in tons of PC Adventure games.

   

  The style however was interesting. Even if overall the story was kinda of a lolwut? Maybe this guy should make movies or something.

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• Spunky Visits

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  spunky_d_99
  

  I hope Tron will turn out nice.  I plan on seeing it either way.

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• Love the blog

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Bombader
  

  It was like your comparing film directors (well you were, instead of comparing game directors) telling how each is strong and weak while centering on the unusual of the bunch.  NMH is certainly a better game than the other parody game made in the west that tried something similar (The Return of Matt Hazard, wasn't as funny though).

  Speaking of Brutal Legend, the team behind Psyconaughts apparently are a western Suda, but don't quite know how to get it sold here.

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• The Thing with Suda 51 is

  Posted: Mar 10, 2010 12:00AM PST by  SilentSoldier
  

  I think he purposely makes the game this way for a reason. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with budgets or anything like that. He's just the kind of person that likes to make highly entertaining and very off the wall type games. Killer 7 is an amazing game just because of how crazy it was that I didn't even mind its oddball gameplay (I actually enjoyed it).That's the appeal to his games, crazy everything else surrounding gameplay that may not be up to the genres standards. I think that in this gen of bald space marine grey brown FPS borefests, games like NMH are needed.

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• Everyone else is tackling Suda...

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  vaultdweller1313
  

  So i'll talk about Tron.  That trailer was awesome, i was already excited after the teaser, but now the anticipation might just kill me.  I love the intensity of it, the minimal talking with technofied drum beats, i really like where this new Tron seems to be heading.  Plus, it's got some awesome looking visuals and the dude so i plan on being there opening night.

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• 

• Kicks

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  accelzero
  

  Its readily apparent as you've said that the guy gets his kicks making that cool factor. As I've said before I've become a fan of his absurdities in his overall game designs. They all lack that polish to solidify into something other than above average. However I would argue that the fact we may take our games too seriously is why his efforts may seem as such to most gamers. Then again he might be doing that on purpose. I remember that a friend asked me why I played NMH2 so much. My answer was that I wanted to see how much more the game could screw my perception of how things go in a regular games. I asked myself is that in itself with the repetitive actions enough to keep going? My answer: yep. Shallow, stylish, substance? Call it waht you will Suda is delivering something that keeps me going to his game.

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• I'm Looking Forward To That Game Too

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  PlayingWithPixelsINC
  

  The Suda-Mikami one you mentioned; it's supposed to have something to do w/ baseball teams an' cheerleaders an' stuff, which is just too crazy to put into proper words.

  Being that I'm a late bloomer to the Suda circle (in fact I'm gonna get Killer 7 this weekend xD), I can't say I fully understand the girth of his style as you.  However, I did get ample time w/ NMH1, and you bought up a good criticism in the open-world system that game used.  I don't think the concept itself was bad; it's just that it didn't do anything w/ it really.  Another problem I had w/ the game was that, when you found the balls around the city and went to the shop to get new powers, some of those powers were REALLY good, but they weren't available in actual combat.  That might've been done deliberately but I felt like it was a bad design decision, almost like a tease.

  I'd like to see what NMH2 does to address some of those problem hands-on, though you mention how the 8-bit games become irrelevant early in the game and that's got me a little worried.  Even so, NMH impressed me most w/ the bosses and overkills; I guess for the time being if 2 can do the same to a greater level I should be content.

   

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• I('m playing MGS4

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Matthew_X
  

  Right now Kojima is proving to me he can make a 1/4 of a game and medicore spy movie. I'd say out of all the developers you mentioned, Suda is the only one who comes close to being relevant in the current gens market.

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• 

• Eh.

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  Syferus
  

  Without commenting on the quaility of the blog, I think there's a real question mark over the elligability of someone actively trying to break into the games journalism industry and already writing freelance for another site to be highlighted in a 'Community Spotlight' section.
  
  Just throwing it out there.

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• 

• I agree

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  TommyAtomic
  

  I'd actually make comparisons between what Suda has been doing and Tim Schafer, at least most recently with Brutal Legend.

   

  BL  oozed it's own personality, such a clever little title.  Much like Suda's games.  The actual game though?  Meh.  It tried some interesting things, but didn't really do anything exceptionally well.

  
  I guess the same COULD be said for the base gameplay of Psychonauts as well.  I just didn't notice because after I got the bouncy ball upgrade I used it constantly, and the core gameplay became (abit unintentially) really fun.  Almost felt like Jumping Flash at times.  But with that said, the way most people would play the game gave them a fairly mundane platformer with cool idea after cool idea, cool concept after cool concept, cool WORLD after cool WORLD.

   

   

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• Re: Syferus

  Posted: Mar 11, 2010 12:00AM PST by  RedSwirl
  

  I totally did not expect this blog to get in the Community Spotlight, and it's just that, a random blog separate from the work I'm doing at another website right now.

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